Thursday, September 07, 2006

Anime World Order Show # 33 - Listener Feedback with Dave Merrill, Fandom Hero

In our longest podcast to date, we were supposed to get caught up on responding to listener feedback with our special guest, the now-retired head of Anime Weekend Atlanta / Corn Pone Flicks member / Anime Hell founder / comicbook creator / Totally Lame Anime expert / Misterkitty.org co-creator / no longer a "Cap'n," Dave Merrill. But we got too preoccupied with having him impart his wisdom to us so that our kung fu might become stronger. Oh, and we did this interview on his birthday.

Click Here to Download


Introduction (0:00 - 1:15)
Shortest introduction ever! Or perhaps it's the longest, considering what this episode is!

Let's News! (1:15 - 24:02)
Fine, so we're weeks late in getting to this. Bandai issued a press release warning everyone that if they fansub Ghost in the Shell: Solid State Society, they'd be prepared to dispatch lawyers in order to defend their intellectual property. While they're perfectly right to do so from a legal perspective, we weigh in on the significance of such an action and whether or not what they're trying to do is actually harmful to them in the long run. Comparisons to the MPAA and RIAA result, which leads to us talking about the effectiveness of their anti-piracy efforts and what could be done. Nikkei BP did an article on the state of Japan's animation industry, which is to say "not that great." Finally, Bandai follows up their Liver Blow that was the fansub warning with this Gazelle Punch: they're not going to allow exchanges of the old Zeta Gundam DVDs from the box set (the ones with awful subtitles) for the newer Zeta Gundam DVDs included in the individual sets (which have fixed subtitles). Daryl bought that set, and he is less than thrilled over this development.

Promo: Rangercast (24:02 - 24:47)
The sentai panel at Otakon was probably one of the best ones there, and this podcast is run by the guy who ran that panel. If it's true about TV-Nihon wanting this guy gone because he DARED to suggest that Mighty Morphin Power Rangers is sentai, then tokusatsu fandom is in even worse shape than we would have imagined.

Then we talked to Dave for the rest of the show. Additional show notes to come, but for now I'll throw in the promo times.

Promo: R5 Central (1:05:12 - 1:06:16)
Speaking of tokusatsu, Mike made us a custom promo based upon the fact that Daryl lost his mind hearing that robot girl "Ai" voice being used for extended periods of time during his three-part Anime Central report. The observation that Gerald's voice sounds as though Carl Macek is directing his words is entirely his own, though it is an idea not without merit. Man. One of these days we should get back to making political attack ads against the other podcasts.

Promo: GeekNights (1:39:59 - 1:41:05)
We have been informed that the promo we chose to play is actually the promo they made which was intentionally bad and meant to prevent people from wanting to listen. We have one of those too, actually. It is also our only promo. Anyway, check out Rym and Scott's show. They're a dynamic [100% heterosexual] duo for the new millennium.

Promo: Anime Pulse (2:01:03 - 2:01:33)
Do you know how frightening it is to have to write that timecode? DO YOU?! Old Man Chigo is the aspect of the Anime Pulse promos that we here at the Anime World Order relate to best. Even though they're older than we are.

Closing (2:15:12 - 2:23:02)
Next time, we're going to do a normal show for once! Remember those? The ones WITHOUT con reports or guests, where we talked about anime and stuff? Gerald's reviewing the uncut version of Street Fighter II: The Animated Movie, Clarissa's tackling that mad outlaw Captain Harlock as she tells us all about Arcadia of My Youth, and Daryl steps up to his role as a Certified Anime Authority by reviewing the much-requested Haibane Renmei. Also, Gerald makes an outlandish bet which he didn't realize was stacked horrendously against him until it was too late. Fortunately it will NEVER come to pass. Never ever.


63 comments:

Chris Sobieniak said...

Just noticed the new podcast is up, and about to check it out! Great to listen to the man who showed me the way! Thanks guys!

The Last Otaku said...

Dang Daryl, do you ever sleep?

Anonymous said...

hey 'homeboy', the joke was was that they used the Damnation Alley big ol vehicle in Chris Elliot's tv show as the 'Paperboy 3000' out to take Chris' job...gavv :)

Daryl Surat said...

Dang Daryl, do you ever sleep?

I want to say "not enough," but I guess the answer is still "too much" since the episode was late even though everyone else got their stuff in on time. I was supposed to have spent yesterday figuring out how to actually USE the mixer and preamp now that I've got it (and going to Radio Shack for some 1/4" adapters), but I guess that'll have to wait. Show 34's actually already recorded, so hopefully by Show 35 or 36 I'll have something figured out.

the joke was was that they used the Damnation Alley big ol vehicle in Chris Elliot's tv show as the 'Paperboy 3000' out to take Chris' job

"It's even cooler than the BATMOBILE!"

Hey, wait, don't go, folks. It's just a fad! Remember what happened with the metric system? Everybody had such high hopes and then...nothing...

I guess I live up to the show's title since I, you know, still remember that despite never having rewatched it since it aired on TV.

kolibri said...

That was pretty weak for reading reader emails, how many did you do - like three?

Still, you had an interesting guest...

Colin said...

You guys inspired me to pick up the first volume of Monster, but I've noticed that no one had mentioned the Christian mythology behind it. In the beginning, they quote a verse from Revelations mentioning the legend of the Antichrist, or the Beast. And it is another part of scripture that says that the Antichrist, or Beast will suffer a should-be fatal head wound, and live.

Dave Riley said...

I've never heard someone say "retard" so many times and make it sound so classy.

God bless Mr. Merril!

Also, now all AWO shows should be 6-7 hours long and be released daily so I have something to do throughout my workday. Two and a half hours is just a TEASE.

Realize that Gerald's bet involves the worst investment time-wise for him, but consider that sitting through 13 episodes of Najica will FEEL like sitting through 52 episodes of any other garbage show. Now with more rat-tails and white dinner jackets!

Bob Savage said...

I was going to comment on something but, after two and a half hours of listening, I can't remember what that was.

Looking forward to Haibane Renmei review (my favorite TV show of all time).

Oh, and if you do a review of that gainax novel I won't be offended.

Peace out.

Anonymous said...

I was going to write and ask myself how is Daryl not being hypocritical when complaining about the intrusion of non-anime elements into conventions when he is involved with Anime Hell. Was a little disappointed we didn't really get an answer on that.

Michael En said...

If Daryl is going to review Happy Lesson, then that better include the OVA of that show as well. I think Clarissa is getting off easy with just Najica, and Gerald is doomed to the Phantom Zone with Kyo Kara Maoh.

As of such, why not take it out on Clarissa? Make her watch some other shit, like anything by Ken Akamatsu.

Pretty much, this is proof that if a guest spot is involved with any show, it's guarenteed to be longer everytime. Personally, I loved it. Longer episodes for sure! The idea of listening to much deeper reviews is a nice thought, but I think it would be much better as a blog post instead.

And by the way, what panels will you all be running at AWA?

The Last Otaku said...

Yeah, I have to agree Dave on that the shows should be 6-7 hours. That would be awesome. And what the hell is the pink smoke? You keep mentioning it and I always wonder what it is.

davehellmerrill said...

You know, I kinda thought we'd have a discussion about how anime cons have changed and What's Wrong With Anime Cons, and I could drag out hoary stories about the early days of anime fandom and stuff, and we never really got around to that. It's just as well though. Thanks for having me on and DAMN does my voice sound whiny! I wish I had Mike Toole's man-voice!

I think the thing with the Panel Of Doom / Anime Hell having a lack of anime content has more to do with a desire to, above all, make the audience laugh. Anyway, it's like what, two hours? It's not as if there's an entire programming track devoted to Walker Texas Ranger.

MC Burnett said...

Absolutely yes to longer shows, so long as you have them in you. Two hours is not even a quarter of my work day. . . and not even a twentieth of my work week. And I just finished listening to every single Fast Karate podcast this afternoon, so now I'm completely boned. Time to listen to those last two Ninja Consultant archived podcasts I've had stashed away in case of an emergency. . . please don't make me resubscribe to a certain crappier anime podcast I used to subscribe to.

-Matt from Queens, by the way.

Clarissa said...

colin -

Yeah, we didn't really get around with that. But it's something we're aware of.

Johan's pretty Anti-Christy definitely (though honestly the first thing that he always reminds me of is not that but Nyarlathotep for some reason; perhaps one of these days I'll make that post about how Urusawa really should do a Lovecraft show...haha, yeah right). Also Tenma is definitely *my* anime second-coming of Christ. Ah, Tenma.

Anonymous said...

Don't get me wrong, Anime Hell is a hoot. But there is a clear (and unaddressed) hypocrisy here, especially since Daryl even bemoans things at cons that have a tenable connection to anime like cosplay and music videos. Dave, when you said that Anime Hell was born because anime collectors also tended to collect other odd, obscure videos, doesn't that pretty much explain why most if not all non-anime events/panels are at anime cons? That they are common satellite interests of anime fans?

Winter said...

I saw an episode of Kyo Kara Maoh dubbed when I was in the comic shop one day.

If only there had been a camera present at the time. When I heard what they were saying in that show, the look on my face was beyond priceless. I didn't know whether to flee the shop screaming or roll around the floor laughing until I knocked down every display in the place.

It was actually kind of hilarious in its own way, but I wouldn't wish 52 episodes of that on anyone.

alexander strange said...

As for doujin artists doing online distribution, keep in mind the traditional Japanese business method "we want to sell this many copies, so we'll print this much and then we don't care about profiting any more."

There's a well-developed piracy system already (Share/WinNY) and doujin do come with warnings about redistribution on them, but since Japanese otaku love paying for things that's probably not a real impediment to online stuff there.

There's a site like this already (http://home.dlsite.com/) which is apparently doing pretty well, but just keep in mind that Japanese artists think foreigners are some weird kind of ghost.

I look forward (with apprehension) to Surat reviewing Haibane Renmei, also my favorite show ever.

Chris Sobieniak said...

Hi Dave!

davehellmerrill said...
You know, I kinda thought we'd have a discussion about how anime cons have changed and What's Wrong With Anime Cons, and I could drag out hoary stories about the early days of anime fandom and stuff, and we never really got around to that. It's just as well though. Thanks for having me on and DAMN does my voice sound whiny! I wish I had Mike Toole's man-voice!


Still, you're the MAN! I would've love hearing more of those bygone days when anime was something I might've heard a faint mention of in an ad for a comic book shop from around '90 (I remember seeing one such ad where they cut to a animated shot of a planet with the words "Japanese Animation" chyroned over it, with me going "huh?", since I just too dense to figure it out then).

I only wish I could've had a childhood like yours, but given the market and demographics of where I grew up in, it was terribly slim to find anything of Japanese orgins on the air besides cable (I hardly watched stuff through the "rabbit ears" such as from Detroit, so I was stuck with watching the Eastern European stuff on Nickelodeon, Aaron of the Weekly Anime Review understands my pain). I would've loved to grow up knowing of Star Blazers or the insipid Battle of the Planets if I had even the slightest chance of seeing those at age 5, but hardly any station in town had the balls to gamble on those programs than the tride-and-true classics (before syndie hits like He-Man, Transformers and others would come to flood the 80's toon market with their toyetic marketing schemes).

I think the thing with the Panel Of Doom / Anime Hell having a lack of anime content has more to do with a desire to, above all, make the audience laugh. Anyway, it's like what, two hours? It's not as if there's an entire programming track devoted to Walker Texas Ranger.

Still, it's rather something I would've loved to do on my own if I had came up with an idea of just showing clips of things I liked watching in a convention that isn't related to the content of my presentation. It would've been more of my excuse for getting people clued into other things than just Japanese cartoons!

Oh by the way, since I've only got about 90 minutes or so into it, I think Prince Planet was done by Copri International in Miami if I'm not mistaken, and the dub of "Ken the Wolf Boy" aired in Australia featured the English voices of Daws "Yogi Bear" Butler! I once passed up on a 16mm copy of an episode on eBay, and I still find myself mentally kicking myself in the ass for not getting it, though the show probably wasn't that big a deal other than for being Toei's first TV project.

And yes, this is the NPR of anime podcasts alright, since that's probably the only thing on the dial I ever listen to anymore. I pretty much gave up on TV a few years ago too since I just didn't see any real use in it (I can get whatever I want online and be happy for it).

By the way, I just happent to noticed nearly most of the "Prince Planet" series is available through BitTorrent over at Demonoid.com, perhaps Cap'n Dave's efforts in circulating this obscure classic all those many years ago have not gone in vain after all!

PART 1: http://www.demonoid.com/files/details/408479/3748428/
PART 2: http://www.demonoid.com/files/details/412391/416492/
PART 3: http://www.demonoid.com/files/details/413984/1665968/
PART 4: http://www.demonoid.com/files/details/419302/832984/
PART 5: http://www.demonoid.com/files/details/420418/3331936/
PART 6: http://www.demonoid.com/files/details/421486/2498952/

Thinking about it, the rights to this show is quite sticky given the number of hands that the AIP library has passed through the years (current owner being Sony of all companies). I wonder if the property has been rendered uncopyrighted these days if someone hasn't renewed it over time? We would've had a lot more of those vids like what Something Weird did on their DVD release such like some of Toei's early anime features like "Panda and the Magic Serpent" and found their way to the budget video market via their Public Dormain status.

And thanks for the "Get A Life" reference! I only wish they bother putting out a box set of that one! Wouldn't have to wear out my 10th gen copies of the show from their original Fox airings (of course there's probably too many rights issues with things like the songs they used in the series that had to be taken out for the USA Network airings if they can't release it complete).

Erwin Rosales said...

Well this was an AWESOME episode (thank you for reading my letters). The length was perfect (that is how always it should be :P ).
Well guys let me tell you that you were not the only ones watching Cyborg 009, I also watched that great anime.
I will looking forward to your next show.

David said...

Wow, you guys say 2+ hours is too long? When I saw the length in iTunes I wasn't like "wow this is loonnnggg" I was more like "wow there must be good shit in here if its that long"--well lets just say I wasn't disappointed at all :)

For the rest:

Gerald: Reviews of "old" anime, sure (be sure to torrent them >_>). As for the stuff on the industry--I think its related so long as it deals with anime in one way or another. (ref ep26, when you talked about anime licensing)

Clarissa: it would be cool if you do "mini-podcasts" when you would go all-out on a particular show and just have them as bonus content seperate from the main podcast. (like the Otakon 2006 interviews)

Winter said...

In terms of the questions about length and content, I think you guys should make the podcasts however long (or short, for that matter) you feel necessary.

I wouldn't want ya'll to start cutting out prime material for the sake of holding on to an arbitrary runtime, but I also wouldn't ask you guys to inflate the discussion for the sake of making it longer.

Personally, I seldom listen to an entire podcast all at once. I tend to listen one segment at a time, so the total length of the show isn't too much of a concern to me.

Exedore said...

Yay on Patrick's article and common sense from AWO on the fansub issue.

Reviews of more obscure stuff = good.
Review of Nonteki Memoirs = good.

2.5 hour shows....a bit too much to take in. 90 min is about right, 120 min is pushing it.

And I liked KKM...though I'm watching it subtitled.

Anonymous said...

Like many people, I listen to podcasts at work. Therefore, longer shows would be a godsend to me. Heh.

~Kamon

davehellmerrill said...

I can't speak for why non-anime events happen at most anime cons. I don't go to or staff most anime cons.

I always felt that as long as the main focus of an anime con is anime, you can have some extra stuff in there for variety. But from what I see, and this seems to be Daryl's issue, is things like anime cons having World Of Warcraft programming tracks, and that seems to be crossing some kind of line. We're seeing a higher percentage of convention resources being used for non-anime programming. Now, if a convention wants to make a conscious decision to widen its focus and become a general popular culture festival, that's one thing. But a show that has always been an anime show and continues to advertise itself as an anime show should try to keep the focus on anime.

Daryl's Panel Of Doom is, again, one panel. It's not a programming track. It doesn't take up an entire room for an entire convention. The only staffer it requires is Daryl. I think it's kind of pedantic to accuse Daryl of hypocrisy; he's making no claims as to the anime credentials of his event - unlike some of the anime cons that are knocking themselves out to get away from anime.

Keith said...

You wan to know about the pink smoke? Maybe Michael York will dial you in and you can wear a flimsy silk robe while he explains it to you.

I look forward to the review of Haibane Renmei. Every time I see it sitting around, I just think to myself, "Hmm, looks like a show about angels moping about. Got enough of that from Wim Wenders." Which probably isn't accurate or fair, so I need to be enlightened. Like how someone told me decades ago I should watch Crusher Joe and all I did was go, "What? Is that some Mike Tyson's Punch Out shit?"

And I think a review of ani anime-related book would be good so long as the book offers up plenty to discuss (obvioulsy).

Show 34 and still no Space Thunder Kids? Look, I know it's technically Korean, but it still stars Mazinger and has the Arcadia going up against Sark's command cruiser from TRON.

ScottGreen said...

Haibane Renmei is great and all, I'm a big fan of the distinctive tone, but Aracadia of My Youth should be the real interesting review. It's my favorite anime to see in a con viewing room or to inflict on crowds on people. Melodrama that is that acute is a really offers a unique experience.

Chris Sobieniak said...

Keith said...
Show 34 and still no Space Thunder Kids? Look, I know it's technically Korean, but it still stars Mazinger and has the Arcadia going up against Sark's command cruiser from TRON.


I'm only surprised someone here wants to hear of that one! It's such a mindless piece of shit that I can't even describe the entire plot without realizing whom those Koeans stoled from to make that. Oddly, "Space Thunder Kids" is essentially about 4-5 of these anime knock-offs spliced together from what I've seen otherwise from the Joseph Lai/A.D.D.A. Audio Visual/IFD guys who dubbed this in Hong Kong.

The whole "Tron" rip-off was also dubbed seperately by thes ame group under the name, "Saviour of the Earth".
http://www.ifdfilms.com/VIDEO/s01_trailer_wmv8.asf

Perhaps DigiView will bother releaseing that one someday if I ever go back to Wal-Mart again.

Though rather hard to get without doing a lot of searching, here's the list of other animated titles and previews from IFD to get all bitchy at!
http://www.ifdfilms.com/Prev08_anim.htm

Anonymous said...

(Steve)


I call 'foul' on Dave being pendantic himself!

Up pops the Chris Elliot/Damnation Alley thing and he's right on it, "that was Jan-michael Vincent!" BOOYA!

(I think Cap't Dave got himself the family bucket of 'pendantic' to pass around, ya know :) )

Landmaster still ruled, however. Not sure how well it would work over a long period, that's got a fucking insane high center of gravity issue going on, and the articulated bellows is a huge weak point...

And you mis-remembered, I was the one who *corrected* the boob-up on Final Countdown. Kirk Douglas. ME! I CORRECTED and SCHOOLED!


Anyway, yet another powerful podcast, even if you don't play 'Hearts of Space' on the weekends like NPR used to.

"AWO. the NPR of Anime. Only without the lame ass synth shit"

Have Mike Toole read that and watch your ratings SOAR!

anyway, that issue of non anime elements at anime cons. There's a problem with the idea, and it goes something like this:

Anime Hell, as I see it, is an assualt on the senses, banding together an encapsulated pop culture enema with a core of stupid old shows. It's the junk in all our heads. If it were up to me I'd be adding every single current Burger King commercial produced, because that big head deal is creeping me out.

You have Klingons at an anime con, they're not interested in any way, shape or form in the anime surrounding them. they're there to be fucking KLINGONS and make sure you KNOW IT.

Insert any other fandom that pisses you off for 'Klingon' and it's the same thing. Like say the goths.

Anonymous said...

It still seems Anime Hell is positioned only slightly higher on the slippery slope than Klingons, but what the hey, I like Anime Hell, so I won't complain any further. We do what we dig.

It may be I'm less bothered by such invasions because I'm a West Coast con goer, assuming that the observation made recently on AWO that East Coasters tend to go more crazy at these things (or at least have much less space to get all crazy in, thus making such shameless spectacle less avoidable) is true. I did wonder why there was a group cosplaying Captain Planet at Fanime this year, but I was more amused than anything since that's not something I really expected to see... ever.

Chris Sobieniak said...

Steve went...
Anime Hell, as I see it, is an assualt on the senses, banding together an encapsulated pop culture enema with a core of stupid old shows. It's the junk in all our heads. If it were up to me I'd be adding every single current Burger King commercial produced, because that big head deal is creeping me out.

Those recent ads were really creepy. I'm only glad I don't have to sit there and watch them myself, and I still eat at BK!

Anime HELL sounds more up my alley with what they have in store. I'd love to try something like that one day where it would be things I enjoy viewing like Eastern European ads of the 70's and 80's or scenes from one of those terribly Korean anime knock-offs I bring up so much. Too often I like to think that not everyone ever notices these things on YouTube if they don't search enough through them, though I tend to find myself going to a lot of non-English pages to find the more obscure and bizzare things that interest me to see in or out of context.

Of course stuff I stick up on YouTube don't always last too long with the way others like to clamp down on the legalities of the material at hand. I have no real control over that, though I like to think I had "made a difference" to those that aren't in-the-know. :-)

Insert any other fandom that pisses you off for 'Klingon' and it's the same thing. Like say the goths.

Someone got back on me for hating that group in particular! I just really don't see the reason for it being around personally, but I'm glad I haven't see too many of 'em walking the mean streets in my turf for quite some time.

Given the non-anime-related crap going on at these cons nowadays, too often I wonder if it would be an interesting idea to hold a con that wasn't just about "anime" at all, but would encompass all that animation has provided us with. Sort of a generalization of the medium through fandom. I would love to do a con more in that level if I think it wouldn't create kind of a battle between those that are into anime and those that would go for the later crop of domestic toons or even the folks solely into the Golden Age period for example. Heck I wouldn't mind welcoming furries to in my hellish nightmare, only that I feel it's another stem from the big picture. It just be more a celebration of a medium that needs to be fully understand by the newbies and admired by the pros.

Anonymous said...

(Steve)

Point of order on the Streets of Fire thing. I didn't say all of the TV series Zillion was based off it, but the plot of the Zillion OAV, 'Burning Night', was.

And the one episode of Zillion where cute little Ami dressed up for a date in an 'Ellen Aim' stage outfit. Made her shamefully hot.

Gilles Poitras said...

Good show. I want Dave as a regular guest!!!

At least do an occassional Listener Feedback episode, it works well, I enjoy reading your comments and interactions.

As for Streets of Fire and anime, I've heard it was rather popular with many people in the industry in Japan. In fact one American friend commonly refers to it as a US live action anime. The music is pretty good, but then Ry Cooder did the soundtrack, it even has The Blasters, one of the few US bands from the 80s I recognize.

On the issue of geekiness among early fans, it still exists among a segmet of new fans today. At Fanime last year I attended a panel for Fans Over 30. I expected folks who had been fans for some time and would have a deep knowledge of older shows. Nope. It was a group of new fans who were older. That room had the highest geek factor in the entire con.I had fun! I'll be back there next year and see if any of them watched my recommendations.

Gilles Poitras said...

Hum.

Too many typos. Got to stop posting while not awake.

The Last Otaku said...

I just got done watching Bleach on cartoon network and I have to say that I was really impressed. The dub was above average and there were no artwork edits. Even all of the Japanese text was still there. If you guys have time to watch it do so. And right before Bleach was Trinity Blood. I dont know why all you guys hate it but whatever. I cant form an oppinion off of one episode. At least it had a guy cut a dude in half with all the blood.

Joe Straatmann said...

Count me in as one of the people who are all, "Haibane-Renmei is my favorite thing ever and I'm anxious to hear your thoughts on it." However, if there's an ABe project I'd like to hear you review, it's Texhnolyze. It sounds more up your alley, honestly.

That's not to mention I can discuss Haibane-Renmei with about two dozen people, but with Texhnolyze, there's maybe one. For some reason NOBODY wants to watch it, or watch the first episode and immediately quit on it. So people can watch season upon season of Naruto filler, yet have an episode of a show where people don't talk for 10 minutes and you actually have to infer things rather than have them explained in dialogue for five minutes and it's "OH GOD, IT BURNS!" I guess the little girl needed to have bear pajamas and mad haxxor skillz....

Thus ends my petty attempt at influencing opinion leaders.

Boku said...

Ewww..... I just finnished reading Trinity Blood for the first time on Adult Swim.
O_O
I can already guess how the whole damn story will go.I wish I would of listened to your review earlier.
ROLF! Bleach is fucking funny!
Have you guys ever done a review or "comparison" of the Gensomaden Saiyuki manga and the Gensomaden Saiyuki anime? (not the reload one)
I've got to say alot of people don't even pick up the manga after they watch that damn slop anime! TT-TT Saiyuki manga doesnt get enough love.

Sub said...

There have been a few times in my life where I've felt like the only sane man in a room, but on a larger scale than at an anime con masquerade.

I remember the one at Big Apple Anime Fest; mercifully short. I think it was a year later at Otakon where my buddies talked me into going to that masquerade. It'll be awesome this time, they told me. And I figured, hey, it's a bigger con. Certainly somebody on the entire East Coast will put forth the effort to do something genuinely entertaining onstage! All these people in line can't be wrong!

No fuckin' dice, man. It's awful, what's in front of me, but I seem to be the only dude who thinks so. Everybody else is laughing hysterically at everything, anything that comes out of a cosplayer's mouth.

So about a half an hour passes, the entertainment isn't getting any better, and I decide to cut my losses and leave between skits. I'm in the middle of the row here, and as I excuse-me past the seats I notice that people are looking at me like I have gone completely raving mad.

How could I possibly be walking out? There's still, like, three hours left! The seats are all full! Someone's gonna take that seat as soon as I go! HOW COULD ANYBODY MISS THIS?

The Last Otaku said...

Wait Wait Wait, do you mean comedically funny (like in joking) or the dub was so bad it was funny? I thought it was comedically funny. I guess I will keep watching Trinity Blood just for the hell of it until it gets really bad.

Winter said...

I spent about 20-30 minutes at the cosplay masquerade, mostly for taking pictures for that con report. One skit was very well done, as these things go. If nothing else, they had the charisma to pull it off. Wish my pictures had actually turned out, because their costumes were pretty impressive.

The rest of the time I was at the masquerade...well, I just don't have the patience to stay at that kind of event for long, and the fact that I was exhausted didn't help. The skits didn't make me ill or anything, surprisingly enough, but eventually it became clear that I wasn't really going to get anything of worth out of being there.

Winter said...

Just to say...

Right Stuf is currently running a promotion on various Geneon DVDs, where you can get 10 select DVDs for $50, or 25 for $100. It only applies to select titles, but it's a pretty freakin' long list.

Be sure to read the instructions first -- there's a few odd procedures attached -- but these titles aren't going to get any cheaper than that.

This list includes a lot of titles recently discussed on AWO, so this may be of interest. Master Keaton, Requiem from the Darkness, and the like.

robert Why said...

Another fine episode, although you guys did a pathetic job of wading through your email. Obviously trying to do that while having yet another interesting guest on at the same time, was doomed from the start.

Dave Merrill was great. He could easily be AWO's fourth member, or do his own podcast.

ichibanMuffin said...

I hope you enjoyed scaring away all the people from Japan with your unique reading of a greeting in their language Gerald. I'm surprised that Clarissa didn't do the reading considering that her pronounciation is the best out of all of you, except perhaps for Daryl saying Kazoku Koike.

To make up for that, I recommend that you all (read: Gerald) do a reading of a language from one of countries that has AWO listeners each episode, if only to balance out all the discipline readings you asked for. Plus it would make it easier to match Gerald's voice to some foreign voice actor, and perhaps even prompt people to send in samples of That Guy that everyone says Gerald sounds like, or more easily identify his accent.

Christian Daly said...

One thing that I think is overlooked in the 'slippery slope' question of the relevance of an event like Hell or Panel of Doom versus something like a DDR panel or a World of Warcraft panel are the issues of scale and entertainment. Honestly, I've never met a single person that didn't enjoy their trip to Hell and it certainly packs asses into the seats. That alone means your comparing apples and oranges. If you're going to have Hell, you've got a very large room that not many events can make good use of. A panel about Street Fighter might be enjoyed by the people that go, but you're only looking at maybe 40 people. I've seen huge rooms crammed to standing-room-only for Hell.

To jump back for a second, Anime Hell and The Panel of Doom are both incredibly entertaining, much more than basically any other large event, for my dollar. Obviously, I wouldn't want an entire con to be /b/tard bait, but an hour or two here or there in a large room that would otherwise play host to some awful cosplay event is certainly not cause for concern. The concern should creep in when you look at the schedule and the panels that are actually about Japanese cartoons can be counted on one hand.

The Moogle Master said...

Narato fans are losers!!!!!!

Anonymous said...

Anime Hell is popular. Anime Hell has next to nothing to do with anime. Therefore, it takes up just as much space and time away from more "relevant" events as anything.

I personally I have no ill will towards Anime Hell, which I do enjoy. It nonetheless exists on the same slippery slope built on letting stuff in regardless of how germane it is to an anime-based convention because it's popular and will put butts in the seats. It is not a cause for concern on my part that Anime Hell exists and thrives. I was more interested in the issue as it relates to the ongoing discussion AWO's been having of the state of cons today. It is a discussion worth having, which is why I was irked that Daryl sidestepped an obvious point of debate.

Christian Daly said...

It's inevitable that things unrelated specifically to Japanese cartoons will show up at a convention about such. The thing that separates Hell or something like Kaiju Big Battel from another panel about whatever over-produced .jp psuedo-goth-metal band happens to be the favorite of a room full of 15-year-old white girls is the fact that one set is good and can reach across population strata and the other set can't. There is defintely a place for programming that isn't 100% about Japanese cartoons at a convention about them, since there are tons of directions you could take that in and still find some element of relevance. HK live-action movie influence on various anime, with citations from .jp animation directors or something like that. It kills my interest, though, when there isn't even that attempt to find relevance. When someone tries to sell their panel on 'this is my Star Wars panel at an anime con, take it or leave it', that's a fine time to go get lunch or something.

Anonymous said...

However loved it is doesn't change its degree of "relevance". Saying it's okay merely because it's well-attended... would you say the same thing if a Star Wars panel somehow was able to attract a few hundred people at an anime con?

ScottGreen said...

Bringing up Kaiju Big Battel raises an interesting point. It might be worth attributing some value to something that is creating a new experience versus something that is just regurgitating. Kaiju or Anime Hell bring some innovation and fresh ideas, where as a World of Warcraft discussion is something that you can find anywhere. It isn't distinctively anime/manga and it isn't offering something new that could appeal to fans of anime/manga. Most people are willing to ignore the boundaries of what is strictly appropriate to some degree, after which, there is obvious some debate about what is worth including. Most people here seem to agree that clever twisting of material that is tangentially at best related to Japanese media is more worthly of attention than another round if video game conversation.

I hesitate to make the connection, but I think there is a bridge to OEL here. There's OEL is that just respinning elements from other material with not real sense of its use, and there's some that have learned from the techniques of manga are worth discussing in the same space as manga. I do agree that "World Manga" or whatever is a marketing invention, but it seems like some of it is being credited independent of the force label.

Daryl Surat said...

Could people sign their posts or something if they're posting anonymously? If this was 4chan or something it wouldn't matter, but here it makes it easier for me to follow who said what. Right now I don't know if it's five people posting the same thing or just one guy, though I'm leaning toward the latter.

As for this "Daryl Surat is a hypocrite and is dodging the issue" thing: uh, were you just not listening when, at around the two hour mark, I flat-out asked Dave "hey, aren't you and I hypocrites to run these panels at anime cons while decrying the influx of non-anime related activity"? Don't you think that if I was really dodging the issue, I would have either not asked the question at all, or edited out the entire thing? Perhaps you think "well, the question was not answered in a satisfactory way," but at that point we'd been talking for several hours. The response he gave was "well, I put a lot more actual anime footage in there now," and then he made some posts here to elaborate on that.

Years ago, I did a panel where I showed nothing but anime clips and that was it. Some of it was bad, some of it was good, but it was entirely anime. Attendance wasn't that great, and most people only really wanted to see the bad anime since my idea of "good anime" didn't exactly coincide with other people's (Hajime no Ippo, etc) and the good anime clips were well, not funny. So, the Panel OF DOOM for a while had very little anime since the best of the laughable anime clips all went into the bad anime panel, though it's always had at least some.

I have been gradually increasing the amount of anime footage shown, though. The AWA Panel is going to be mostly the same as the JACON panel, minus any "live action vs anime" segments that I didn't put together myself, which is to say nearly all of them. But I'm also adding in Ippatsu Kikimusume, assorted clips from Combattler/Voltes V, Gundoh Musashi (provided I can FIND the actual episodes), Ziv International Captain Harlock, Captain Future, Macron 1, Superbook, and such. I've been experimenting with Yakkity Sax set to things like Grave of the Fireflies, Now and Then Here and There, and the like, but I don't think that'll be ready in time. I'd have to learn Premiere so I could speed up and loop footage.

So yes, the Panel OF DOOM! still has jack all to do with jack, but I will guaran-damn-tee you that even so, it still manages to have more actual anime content in it than the things I've been declaring to well, not have any anime content. Perhaps someday I will be able to accomplish my original goal of showing nothing but anime clips for 2+ hours and keep the crowd's interest; after seeing how people actually showed up to the AFO panel where Gerald and I did just that for one hour, there may be hope yet.

Daryl even bemoans things at cons that have a tenable connection to anime like cosplay and music videos

GOD DAMN YOU, I BEMOAN THE PRACTICE OF HAVING THE FRIGGIN' CONTESTS AND GIVING OUT AWARDS, NOT THEIR EXISTENCE

Anonymous said...

The main reason I posted here in the first place was in response to Daryl asking the question that had been on my mind during AWO's con reports and because yes, I did not find the question addressed to my satisfaction. On this blog, it seems like the responses have been, "But Anime Hell is awesome and popular!". Yes it is, but that was never an issue for this anonymous troll. The issue remains whether or not it's hypocritical to decry non-anime events at anime cons when supporting something like Anime Hell. Or to get a little deeper, how does one define what does and does not belong at an anime con?

God damn me,
-The Latter

Sub said...

I dunno if I'd call Kaiju Big Battel unrelated; Japanese monster movies and tokusatsu are really close to anime fandom, if not as popular. And hell, they put on a great show. When I was at their screening at Big Apple Anime Fest, though, the crowd wasn't into that stuff and didn't get it at all. Philistines.

For the big cons (going back to my Otakon experience, again) the decision-making isn't so much about relevance as it is the demographic. You can pack a WoW panel, of course, even if it has little to nothing to do with Japanese cartoons. Meanwhile, if I have a "Isn't Norio Wakamoto Just The Goddamn Coolest?" panel probably ten people will show up at a big con, and that's generous. This is why internet culture is everywhere; online community was already big for anime fans before, and now the new generation of fans gets all their shit online (regrettably, i know).

It's true this other stuff gets really huge attendance over many anime events, but let's be realistic. Niche anime can't pull in a big crowd to begin with. We're kind of fucked in that respect.

When I went to see Gaogaigar at Otakon the audience was small but respectable. When it turned out somebody couldn't tell the difference between it and Godannar, and they ran that instead, attendance suddenly skyrocketed! Gaogaigar is a super-traditional robot anime, and to get it you have to be well-acquainted with the genre in the first place. Not many people at the typical anime con are. You know what people are acquainted with? Titties. Boobs: a common interest among human beings. We love them. You take a room full of anime fans, and you tell them behind door number 1 is a great anime they've never seen anything like before, and you tell them behind door number two is tits, you goddamn betcha you will see the majority of the crowd rush for door number two. You see what I'm saying?

Can we really blame the crowd for doing other shit they're interested in instead of seeing anime that they aren't? It's their vacation, and if they want to spend part of it on a two-hour line to play the same DDR Extreme machine in every mall in America, that's sort of tragic, but hell. Let 'em. If they're really solely around for non-anime shit I'd say that's their bad judgement (i can't imagine the thoughts of the person for whom the otaku rave or the game room is their sole justification for attending), not really the con's. So yeah, I guess I can blame THOSE guys for coming to my goddamn party.

I think there's room for all this other stuff that people are into if it doesn't take over the schedule, and I don't think that any con is actually at the point where non-anime stuff, with not even the slightest shred of connection to the anime culture, takes over.

Having J-rock concerts as a main event is kind of toeing the line, though. There's lots of Japanese music that isn't associated with anime that I like, but the connection to the anime culture is pretty tenuous. That's not main-event material for an anime con... but these are backed by record companies and there are CDs to be sold.

I'm really not liking the implications of that for the future.

Dustin L. said...

At the end of the day, it's the people running a particular convention that are responsible for what events take place at that convention. Someone in charge of some aspect of the convention had to OK that World of Warcraft panel for whatever reason.

sub:
People probably wanted to see Godannar more than GGG because they knew about it before the convention. I love GaoGaiGar to death, but it's not exactly a high-profile show.

Then again, it probably IS the fanservice. But I'd like to pretend that it wasn't and that the true winner of that day was Nobuyuki Hiyama (the one and only voice of truly great characters such as Godannar's Kouji and GaoGaiGar's Gai Shishiou).

Michael En said...

Bringing up the GaoGaiGar and Godannar thing is kind of depressing. As fun of a show that Godannar is, GaoGaiGar is simply better, I think. The fanservice was way too much in Godannar. To think that people choose Godannar over GaoGaiGar, is sort of depressing... It's proof that the modern anime fans are all perverts in the end.



If I may, I would draw a parallel of Daryl Surat, to the really cool characters in anime, that are so insanely awesome, that if they were in the show the whole time, then the it would pull off a Gundam SEED Destiny. And nothing should try to emulate Gundam SEED Destiny. A good example would be Soldat J with the King J-Der from GaoGaiGar.

Chris Sobieniak said...

Daryl Surat said...
Could people sign their posts or something if they're posting anonymously? If this was 4chan or something it wouldn't matter, but here it makes it easier for me to follow who said what. Right now I don't know if it's five people posting the same thing or just one guy, though I'm leaning toward the latter.


It would help!

Years ago, I did a panel where I showed nothing but anime clips and that was it. Some of it was bad, some of it was good, but it was entirely anime. Attendance wasn't that great, and most people only really wanted to see the bad anime since my idea of "good anime" didn't exactly coincide with other people's (Hajime no Ippo, etc) and the good anime clips were well, not funny. So, the Panel OF DOOM for a while had very little anime since the best of the laughable anime clips all went into the bad anime panel, though it's always had at least some.

It's hard running a panel based on a premise that has no easy target obviously, and I don't mind you for detouring to present other things of interest.

I have been gradually increasing the amount of anime footage shown, though. The AWA Panel is going to be mostly the same as the JACON panel, minus any "live action vs anime" segments that I didn't put together myself, which is to say nearly all of them. But I'm also adding in Ippatsu Kikimusume, assorted clips from Combattler/Voltes V, Gundoh Musashi (provided I can FIND the actual episodes),

That one's a hoot! I only wish I could find those episodes as well (Best I've been able to find were a fansub of the first episode, and the first four that were parody subbed, people just aren't bothering with this one, yet I see potential in it). Have to see if someone might have it on eMule or elsewhere.

Ziv International Captain Harlock, Captain Future, Macron 1, Superbook, and such.

Being reminded of having the "Malibu Graphis" edition of Captain Harlock. The "out-of-synch" first episode and over-modulated thrid episode are worth the price of slamming your body against the wall really hard! :-)

I've been experimenting with Yakkity Sax set to things like Grave of the Fireflies, Now and Then Here and There, and the like, but I don't think that'll be ready in time. I'd have to learn Premiere so I could speed up and loop footage.

I still need to learn how to use those programs myself as well. Love to experiment in After Effects as well somehow. Have some tutorial guides and videos to watch on this, but need to set up time and effort to get it right (plus perhaps some extra cash to get a higher processor than the one I currently have in my PC).

So yes, the Panel OF DOOM! still has jack all to do with jack, but I will guaran-damn-tee you that even so, it still manages to have more actual anime content in it than the things I've been declaring to well, not have any anime content. Perhaps someday I will be able to accomplish my original goal of showing nothing but anime clips for 2+ hours and keep the crowd's interest; after seeing how people actually showed up to the AFO panel where Gerald and I did just that for one hour, there may be hope yet.

We can only hope!

The Last Otaku said...

People really dont like to listen do they?

alexander strange said...

The Musashi parody subs are yet another fake name Studio ADTRW project; you can get them here.

http://raspberryheaven.net:53284/index.html?search=Musashi

I can get raw versions of an episode or two and the actually seriously translated one if you really want, but isn't that kind of boring?

Chris Sobieniak said...

alexander strange said...

The Musashi parody subs are yet another fake name Studio ADTRW project; you can get them here.

http://raspberryheaven.net:53284/index.html?search=Musashi

I can get raw versions of an episode or two and the actually seriously translated one if you really want,


I pretty much have most of what's out there anyway, but raw episodes would be nice to edit to!

but isn't that kind of boring?

Nah, not when you are an obsessive fan of cheese like me! Those things are as insipid as those Korean knock-off anime DVDs that were mentioned here before! Plus I like seeing the little parodies people have made for it on YouTube!

The Last Otaku said...

I dont know if any of you care or not but Nintendo just released the date and price for the Wii. It will bee $249.99 and reeleased on November 19. It will also come with Wii Sports.

Sub said...

Unfortunately, the fansub group who did the first episode admit in the opening credits that they only subbed the one episode so that they'd get noticed and they'd get translators for their group. Seriously!

Chris Sobieniak said...

Sub said...
Unfortunately, the fansub group who did the first episode admit in the opening credits that they only subbed the one episode so that they'd get noticed and they'd get translators for their group. Seriously!


Yet nobody bothered to come forward and say they like to work on it.

Bet it would be cheaper just licensing this if ADV doesn't mind giving it the "Ghost Stories" treatment. That's the only way I see this ever working here.

Nice someone else had to bring up the WII. I personally wasn't interesting in blowing huge sums of cash on that, but I can see that it'll probably be the winner when it's all said and done.

Life On Tap said...

Dave...you rock! I can't go to AWA, but I look forward to the post-con interview. Great ep, by the way. Daryl - I look forward to your Renmei review. For the record, Gerald's voice alright no matter who he sounds like or what accent he might have according to what day it is. For the record, I too am scared of the live-action remakes coming out soon. You should definitely take them apart when they do come out.

Peace,

Dan "On Tap"

alexander strange said...

Yet nobody bothered to come forward and say they like to work on it.

Well, I like to work on it, I did the last parody. My Japanese certainly isn't good enough for the real thing, though.

I'll get the stuff up when I finish being asleep.

Chris Sobieniak said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.